AT DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND
HUMAN SERVICES
UNITED STATES FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
CENTER FOR FOOD SAFETY AND APPLIED NUTRITION
ADDITIVES AND INGREDIENTS SUBCOMMITTEE
OF THE
FOOD ADVISORY COMMITTEE
LATEX ALLERGY
Wednesday, August 27, 2003
8:10 a.m.
St. Regis Hotel
923 16th Street, Northwest
Crystal Ballroom
Washington, D.C.
PARTICIPANTS
Johanna Dwyer, D. Sci., Chair
Richard Bonnette, Executive Secretary
MEMBERS
Jeffrey Blumberg, Ph.D.
Goulda Downer, Ph.D.
Lawrence Fischer, Ph.D.
Anthony Gaspari, M.D.
Robert Hamilton, Ph.D.
Rachel Johnson, Ph.D.
Brandon Scholz
Steve Taylor, Ph.D.
J. Antonio Torres, Ph.D.
C O N T E N T S
Call to Order
Committee Chair 4
Invited Comment from Consumer Advocate
Lise Borel, DMD 5
Questions of Clarification 23
Invited Comment from Latex Glove Industry
Charles Reed, M.D. 35
Questions of Clarification 51
Invited Comment from a Retail Food Provider
John Schulz 96
Questions of Clarification 105
Public Comment
Doris Rittenmeyer 117
Invited Comment from a State with Latex Food Service Prohibition
Marie Stoeckel (by telephone) 125
Questions of Clarification 135
Public Comment
Wava Truscott, Ph.D. 143
Rochelle Spiker 172
Karen Jacpor, M.D. (read by Lise Borel) 178
Christine Andrews 186
Esah Yip 207
Questions of Clarification 192
Invited Comment from a State with Latex Food Service Prohibition
Donald Harrington (by telephone) 220
Questions of Clarification 230
Committee Discussion 236
Adjournment 312
P R O C E E D I N G S
Call to Order
DR.
DWYER: Good morning. This is the second day of our meeting on
natural rubber latex. Thank you for
coming a little early. I am going to
just acknowledge and then the committee will receive in the course of the
morning eighteen pieces of written comments that various people have submitted
for our perusal. Twelve are opposed to
natural rubber latex gloves in food service, three are in favor, two are
neutral according to the staff. So we
may want to peruse them as we reach the discussion.
Mr.
Bonnette has done a wonderful job of rearranging our schedules to try to get at
least some of us out today. I am going
to stay so there is no need to hurry in terms of anything you wanted to get to
me. I will be here all evening.
But,
Mr. Bonnette, would you fill us in on those arrangements and when we think is a
target for leaving.
MR.
BONNETTE: I can only offer my
estimation. I am sure, when we actually
get into the program today, we will know a little better. But just looking at how I have been able to
move speakers up from the afternoon, depending on how long the discussion
period lasts, I think we will certainly be done around the usual time, probably
5:00 or 5:30.
DR.
DWYER: Thank you, Mr. Bonnette.
What
we will start with this morning, then, is Dr. Lise Borel, who is a consumer
advocate and who is going to give us an invited comment on her views on this
important problem.
Invited Comment from Consumer Advocate
DR.
BOREL: Good morning. I would just like to offer a couple of
comments about how much I appreciate being invited to speak. As I was reviewing what occurred all day
yesterday, and it was a long day, I am amazed at the process that our country
goes through to ensure public health and public safety. It has been a really, really beneficial
experience for myself and I hope for all of you to be part of this process.
It
is new for me so I am kind of a little wide-eyed, but I am sure for all of you,
you sometimes take a moment and are just happy, like I am, that these things do
occur. So thank you.
My
name is Lise Borel. I have practiced
dentistry for ten years and I was diagnosed with latex allergy in 1994. What I would like to do is offer a
perspective from the other side of the glove, as a consumer today. There is not a lot writing. It is a lot of pictures because I would like
to put a face to this issue.
This
picture really struck me as some data from this company that provides gloves to
many industries including foods. But
gloves are a controversial subject for many, many reasons; to wear them or not
to wear them, what kinds of material they are made from and the impact that it
has on end users and those on the receiving end of the gloves.
My
perspective is on the receiving end of the gloves. These are people that are affected by latex allergies. Whether you are like Brock Williams, here,
in the upper left, and who was born with spina bifida--and 4,000 children are
born each year with spina bifida--this is a significant impact on healthcare
when latex-safe environments and safe food is not available to them.
The
gentleman in the top middle was one of the guys that was serving food at a
local food festival. I took some
pictures of individuals wearing latex gloves at this food festival and he goes,
"Look at my eyes. I have got hives
and I sneeze and my nose runs whenever I wear these gloves." This was out of the blue. I was just taking pictures for another
presentation. So he is probably one of
those unknown individuals who may be sensitized to natural rubber latex.
Stacy
over there is a healthcare worker. That
is what happens to her when she walks into a room where powdered latex gloves
are used.
Debbie
Anderson was referred to yesterday by Dr. Tomazac. She is not a healthcare worker.
She was a teacher and she underwent multiple surgeries and developed
latex allergy through surgical exposure.
Her event that led to an awful, awful series of events, was that she
spent the day in the ER with her niece.
She took great care not to be directly contacted with latex, but they
used powdered latex gloves in the facility and people that were handling her
niece work latex gloves at all times.
She
took turns with her sister holding the baby and went home and had some typical
allergic symptoms, took a Benadryl. But
then she ate a banana. She was not
informed by her physician that it is cross-reactive.
The
exposure during the day and then the banana at night caused her to
anaphyax. Her family members were not
trained with Epipen and they didn't know when to use it. So what they did was CPR, and that did not
work. They used the Epipen after twenty
minutes. You will see what happened to
her later because she did not receive the proper care.
Lieutenant
Harold Henderson is a healthcare worker who died in, I believe, 1997,
1998. He is one of the few reported
cases of deaths associated with exposure to latex gloves.
That
little boy just represents the poor kid in Italy eating those cream donuts for
this experiment.
When
the original rules were made and developed, they basically remained developed
in an era where latex-glove use was not prevalent outside of the medical
community. You didn't see people
wearing latex gloves to do gardening.
You didn't see Martha Stewart wearing latex gloves to stuff a turkey. You just didn't see it. It wasn't done.
So,
at this point, with the advent, and the very sudden advent, of latex allergy,
it is a good time to take another look at the rules and the regulations that
are in the books and reevaluate where we stand based on the products that are
now used to commonly in today's world.
Because
there are other products on the horizon, alternative products, and one of them
happens to be an alternative natural rubber latex product from the Guayule
shrub, I wanted to be very specific for the terminology. We are talking about Hevea. It is very important that we remember that
because, in the future, there are going to be other sources of natural rubber. Those are already in the beginning stages of
manufacturing.
Latex
allergy surprised everybody. Anybody
who is diagnosed with it, particular me--I, as a dentist, if anybody ever told
me you could be allergic to gloves, I would have laughed. It is ridiculous. Sadly, the opposite is true.
It is possible and it significantly impacts people.
This
is what happened to Debbie because the EMS only had latex-containing medical
devices. The ER only had
latex-containing medical devices. She
suffered severe anoxia. She has
permanent brain damage. She is blind
and she is fed through a feeding tube and she will always be cared for. Her twins, I believe, are about twelve years
old now.
Despite
some of the coverage that has been in the media over the years and despite the
efforts of organizations and government agencies, truly latex-allergy awareness
to be improved. This is a huge
issue. If we talk to people are not
with in the healthcare community, they don't have a clue. "Oh, yeah; I saw something on t.v. or
my aunt says she has latex allergy."
But they don't have a good idea or a good education or a good awareness
of what the consequences can be.
This
is from NIH. These are the statistics
that are available to us now. I am sure
there are some that would probably disagree with these, but I believe that
these are done with careful consensus and careful review of the literature.
We
talked about cross-reactivity yesterday.
It is an issue but, if you review the literature that is out there, I am
sure most of you will agree that the percentage of people who are
cross-reactive to foods, that have latex allergy that are cross-reactive to
foods, is around 30 to 35 percent.
It is not an overwhelming majority.
It does not happen in the majority of the cases.
Then
we spoke briefly about people who had food allergies that would then cross-react
back to latex. This percentage is even
less. So cross-reactivity is something
that has to be considered in the studies that are available, it is not the big
picture. The big picture is exposure to
Hevea natural rubber latex.
We
talked a little bit yesterday about types of reactions and how can you predict
what the reaction will be. The problem
is that you can't. Within individuals,
they don't always react to the same exposure level at the same time. It is often an issue of how many times that person
has been exposed over the past week or over the past month that heightens their
sensitivity. So it does depend on
individual sensitivity. It does depend
on how contact occurs.
It
is very important as a patient and, as a consumer, to learn about the big
things to worry about and the little things to worry about so that you don't
walk around thinking that everything is going to cause you a problem because it
simply isn't so.
We
know that latex that contacts mucosal tissues is one of the biggest issues. Also, literature cites inoperative reactions
So
when I was diagnosed, I was given that lovely list of 40,000 things to
avoid. I looked at it and I went, like,
what do you do with this. It took me a
little while. What I realized is how
products are made. It kind of gave me
some guidelines about what the importance of what these issues were.
I
don't worry about rubber bands. I don't
stick them in my mouth and suck on them, but I don't really worry about
them. I do worry about the gloves
because of the way they are manufactured.
They are a largest source of bioavailable allergens out there. The other stuff is out there but, believe
me, it just is not that much of a risk issue.
We
learn about exposure routes. When you
are a latex-allergic patient, believe me, it changes everybody's perspective
and it changes how you travel through life.
You do a lot of thinking about the "what ifs." But, with time, you know that you can learn
to take care of yourself. You have the
appropriate medications. Your physician
gives you the appropriate information and you learn to look out for hidden
sources of latex and you learn what to do in the event the you are exposed to
mild reactions.
This
allergy is totally manageable. What is
not so manageable is what other people do in their everyday life that you are
not aware of. Dr. Taylor, you brought
up a great point yesterday. I think you
talked about the lettuce that was fixed in a processing plant and then went on
to a facility that didn't use latex gloves.
How do you know what the source was?
Many
times, it is impossible to trace the source of exposure and sometimes you just
stop trying. But we know that
nonmedical glove use is just flying off the charts in terms of what is imported
into the country. This is a huge
increase every year and this represents billions of dollars. This is a huge industry with a lot of
financial incentives to keep producing more gloves.
That
is my auto mechanic. He uses latex
gloves. Then that was a food
festival. I went into a doctor's office
and I found this cartoon and I started to laugh until I realized that the woman
that was cleaning the office was looking a magazine wearing her latex gloves.
This
are situations that do not expose the users to bloodborne pathogens. There just is no rationale reason for
wearing a glove that has potential to cause latex allergy. So, while I know there is a separation
between workers and consumers, I am a worker but I am also a consumer. These workers are consumers as well, and
that is something to consider. We want
to be sure that we are not sensitizing other populations with pretty much
indiscriminate latex-glove use.
We
talked a little bit yesterday about how gloves are relabeled or
repackaged. I first found this out back
in 1996, 1997 and I was appalled because I looked at how strong the measures or
the guidelines were through the Center for Devices for gloves. But then the same, exact, product could be
sold as a food-service glove and have absolutely no controls and very little
regulations.
I
find latex gloves from farm to table. I
worked in a farm market a couple hours a week when I was in between jobs just
because I happen to like the farm. I go
back into the barn and he has a case of powdered latex gloves. I said, "What are they for?" He says, "Well, we wear them when we
attach the milking machines to the cows and I wear them when I pick the
strawberries because my hands itch from the strawberries." He says, "This year, we just have them
there for anybody." It was, like,
a self-serve farm. You could pick your
strawberries and go out and pick a pumpkin.
You could do what you wanted. So
people were wearing latex gloves to pick strawberries.
So
no matter where you are in the process from farm to table, there are latex
gloves. It is a simple fact of life
these days.
Sometimes,
they are in boxes and sometimes they are labeled. And sometimes, like in this group, you can't see very clearly,
but the gentleman on the far right over there, that is a garbage bag full of
latex gloves. What he said the
restaurant does is they get their gloves from the distributor in big barrels,
like you see in Home Depot, where they throw like tools that are on sale.
There
was a barrel this big that was full of any number of brands of gloves. There is absolutely no way to track which
one is good, which one doesn't have powder, which one doesn't have high protein
because they are all thrown in the basket.
This is what they give these individuals to wear.
I
would say, out of this food festival, over three-quarters of the booths, the
personnel were wearing latex gloves.
That is a big percentage. When
you ask them why they are doing it, they are saying, "We don't want to get
our hands messy." There is very
little indication that they are wearing it to protect the consumer.
Reporting
reactions; this was an issue yesterday.
I have to tell you that I am the author of the website that listed Dr.
Klontz's information. But I would like
you to understand the context of which his name was listed. I am a huge advocate of civic
responsibility. I believe in doing the
right thing for the right reason and I don't believe that we can do anything
without proper information.
When
you go down the list of other agencies that are dealing with latex-allergy
issues, there are very specific reporting instructions and programs. When you go to the FDA CFSAN site, there is
not, as a consumer. I know that there
are programs in place. They also direct
you to your district office to report food-related reactions.
I
have dialed our FDA district office three times, now, in Philadelphia. I have never received a phone call
back. So, as a consumer, this is a bit
frustrating to have important information and no place to put it.
So
this is exactly what was on the website.
We explained how to report reactions depending on who it was and where
the reaction occurred. You can see the
different categories. We gave a general
description of the reporting programs that were available and the contact
information.
This
is an example of FDA MedWatch. This is
their MedWatch program for reporting adverse events for medical devices. Latex gloves are medical devices if they are
labeled as medical gloves.
This
is what we found. Just about everybody
had very formal reporting programs with very detailed reporting
instructions. When I went to FDA CFSAN,
I had a difficult time finding anything.
I knew at the time that FDA was looking at this issue. They had sent several documents in and Dr.
Klontz was receiving comments. That was
basically how that whole thing got started.
But it was just not his name. It
was everybody in there. It was in the
context of how to report reactions.
This
is what you find when you go to www.fda.gov.
There is a section on how to report problems regulated by FDA. One of the sections is how to report
non-emergencies with food. This is what they do. If you click on that blue writing, it will take you to the list of
district offices. You then make a phone
call to the district office and, hopefully, they call you back. That is pretty much what I could find in
terms of reporting.
I
would like, because some of the information that I feel is very important to
this issue--I would like to review what is out there from other government
agencies in terms of recommendations for food handlers. I know it is work-related and I know that
your responsibility is to stay on topic, but the science behind their decisions
states the same.
This
is developed by the American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology and the
American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. While this went through some painful discussions, from what I
understand, the general gist of their recommendations is that latex gloves
should only be used as mandated by universal precautions or standard
precautions, as they are called now.
They
discourage the use to limit the level of content to anybody wearing these
gloves. It is a very consistent
message. Whether you are talking about
the professional organizations, whether you are talking about CDC NIOSH,
whether you talking about OSHA Technical Information bulletins, the message is
the same.
In
a 2002 publication that was in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology,
again, there is a general review of latex allergy, like how far we have come
and where we are now. The message stays
the same. It doesn't change.
There
was a reference to a worker's compensation article yesterday. Just to provide another published
perspective, I wanted to make sure that you knew that there was other information
available. The people who published
this worked very closely with the worker's compensation cases that were
accepted and what the eventual cost of these were. I believe, for one of the individuals that they use as an example
in this paper, the cost was close to $1 million.
That
was not just their case. It was
retraining. It was getting people in to
replace the person who was out of work because of their issues. The overall costs are close to $1 million
for healthcare workers.
Oregon
has prohibited latex gloves for food handling.
This ad was place in the Oregonian, questioning, I guess, the wisdom
behind that decision. As far as I can
tell, it is a matter of perspective, whether you are one of the millions of
people, millions of Americans, affected by latex allergy who are instructed by
their physicians to avoid, avoid, avoid latex or whether you are industry and
are in it because that it your job and that is how you keep going.
A
perspective depends on what side of the glove you are on. I just want you to remember that when you
are thinking through all the science is this issue has a face and has a couple
of million of them. These faces are
counting on you to make the correct decision.
I
want to thank FDA for putting this information in the Food Code. Believe me, when I was doing advocacy, it
has made my job a lot easier because it brings the issue where it belongs. It brings it from, "I think there is a
problem," to, "There is something published in the Food
Code." So thank you very much.
Everything
has changed. There is a big difference
between 1963. We are all a lot
older. Some of the us have healthcare
issues now, but the fact remains that it is time to look at this in the context
of where we are now in terms of glove use and what has happened to people over
the years in terms of increased exposure and increased sensitization.
Any
questions?
DR.
DWYER: Thank you, Dr. Borel.
Questions of Clarification
DR.
DWYER: Are there questions?
DR.
BOREL: That was easy. Thank you very much.
DR.
DWYER: Just give them a moment.
DR.
FISCHER: I can ask one. You mentioned that cross-reactivity is not
nearly as prevalent as some people think.
DR.
BOREL: Correct.
DR.
FISCHER: Where did you get that
information, or how did you come to that conclusion?
DR.
BOREL: There is a specific article that
I don't have with me but I would be happy to get it for you by Schirer. When you look just through a literature
review, it is fairly consistent. I am
sure there are articles out there that cite higher numbers just like there are
article out there that cite higher prevalences and incidences of latex
allergies.
But
I took the most articles. I did a lot
reading and reviewed most of the literature out there and this is what I was
coming up with.
DR.
FISCHER: Thank you.
DR.
DWYER: This is Johanna Dwyer. Were you given a list by your physician
about all these different foods to avoid?
DR.
BOREL: That came out of St.
Christopher's Hospital in Philadelphia because they deal with spina-bifida children
so much. So this was a list that had
medical equipment and household products.
I have to tell you, the lists are extremely inaccurate. If you went by those lists, you would be
mental. You really would, because they
kind of assign the same priority in terms of avoidance.
We
know that there are very specific products that cause the majority of the
reactions. That is what I personally
think about. I mean, I honestly don't
put a lot of thought into anything except for my medical care, my dental care,
gloves and balloons. That is pretty
much it.
DR.
DWYER: Mr. Scholz?
MR.
SCHOLZ: Do you have education programs
around here for either consumers or workers?
Is there anything on the front end before they find out that they are
allergic to latex? Are there education
programs or consumer programs that just kind of reach out and increase
awareness?
DR.
BOREL: There are. Whether or not they are distributed and
utilized is anybody's guess. There is
an excellent tutorial on the NIH site.
Dr. Kenneth Kelly out of Wisconsin has done some work. Johns Hopkins has information. The information is out there. It is just a matter of--when it involves
you, you tend to look into it and, when it doesn't, you tend not to.
DR.
DWYER: Thank you.
Dr.
Johnson had a question.
DR.
JOHNSON: Thank you very much.
I
am still really struggling with the difference between direct contact with
latex by the food-service worker--we heard a lot about that yesterday--and then
the contamination of food that, then, an allergic person consumes. I wonder if your advocacy work--it sounds
like you are probably in contact with a lot of people that have latex allergy.
DR.
BOREL: Yes.
DR.
JOHNSON: Can you give us, even though
it is anecdotal--it seems like the data are limited. You didn't present anything new, really. So, anecdotally or in your work with people
with this allergy, in your consumer-advocacy work, do you advise people when
they go to a restaurant to ask if the food has been prepared with latex gloves?
DR.
BOREL: I understand what you are
saying. Let me give you an
example. There is a dermatologist in
Florida. His big thing is bagels. Everything is on the bagel. He used to get his bagels at a little shop
just down the road but it closed. So he
went to Einstein Bagels. I know him
through association with a nonprofit organization. He has been very instrumental in increasing awareness in the
State of Florida.
He
started getting his bagels at Einstein.
The first time he went in, he ate a bagel and he started to itch. His eyes started to water, but he didn't
really see anybody wearing latex gloves.
This happened two or three times.
He gave me a ring and I said, "Tell me what you have been doing
that's different," because he has been basically reaction-free for quite a
while.
He
told me about the bagel situation. But,
he said, "I don't think they are wearing latex gloves." So he went in again and didn't ask. He bought himself a bagel and he had
anaphyaxed and ended up in the ER. His
blood pressure dropped. His airways
were swollen. He had hives and he had
very distinct wheezing.
When
he finally got out of the hospital, I think they admitted him overnight, he
called Einstein and found that they were wearing latex gloves in the back and
it wasn't something that he could see.
So
what I advised him, based on his experience, was to, "Before you eat food,
ask to see the box of gloves that they are using. Even if it is not in the front, ask if they use them and then ask
to see the box."
In
my own personal experience, I call sometimes ahead to see if they use latex
gloves. I worry particularly about
salads because of the wetness issue. I
think that is one of the biggest risk factors.
They will say, "No; we don't use them," or they will think I
am a health inspector and they will say, "Oh, yes; we wear them all the
time."
To
double check, ask to see the box. Even
though they don't really like it, I have to say probably at least half the
time, they are latex but they call them plastic. There is very little understanding of glove material, of
appropriate gloves for appropriate tasks.
There is very little education and understanding among food workers
unless you have a problem that is like in Oregon where they make an effort, a
very distinct effort, to go out and educate people in the food-handling
business.
So,
in general, yes; we do tell people to ask.
I am not saying it is the most common route of exposure for
reactions. I am not saying that it is
most common cause because it certainly is not.
But it is something that is avoidable and we are told, as patients, to
avoid, avoid, avoid. I count on safe
food. I live in America where a lot of
measures are taking place to make sure our food is safe. Safety for myself and millions of others
means food that is not contaminated with Hevea natural rubber latex.
DR.
DWYER: Just one last question. I keep struggling with the issue of--this is
really considered a medical device, I guess, under the law, but all of the
people that we see with various food allergies, including peanut allergies--I
have heard some very good presentations by peanut people, by
anti-peanut-allergy people, by the allergy people--the question is how far can
society go to help folks who have the kinds of problem you have because there
are many other people who have other conditions. It is a struggle and I think we all want to do the right thing.
DR.
BOREL: It is a struggle and, of course
you want to do the right thing. Believe
me, I am not sitting in those chairs.
You have a very difficult job. I
believe in prevention. An ounce of
prevention to me is worth everything.
There are alternative ways to handle food that do not jeopardize or put
at risk people with latex allergy.
What
I would also like to see happen is a move should be made to prevent further
sensitization for food-service workers.
A great example is I was in an airport.
There is a Macdonald's there.
There is a sixteen-year-old girl behind the counter and she has on vinyl
gloves and then latex gloves.
I
said, "Why are you double-gloving?"
She said, "Well, I have an allergy to latex." I said, "Oh; did you go to the
doctor?" And she said,
"Yes." But my manager makes
me wear latex because it is required by law."
So
this is a general understanding and this is what we are running into. She is sixteen years old. I would be furious if my sixteen-year-old
daughter, who has a history, a six-year history, of ten surgeries, who has
other allergies, is told to wear latex gloves.
She is one of those individuals who should not wear latex gloves and not
be exposed.
It
is a precautionary measure, I understand, but the situation is out there where
glove use in the food-handling industry is escalating unbelievably. A lot of these end users are very, very
young. These are our teenagers. We don't need to make more patients. We really don't.
DR.
DWYER: Thank you very much.
Who
else? Dr. Gaspari?
DR.
GASPARI: You mentioned early in your
presentation about new sources of rubber.
I want to make sure that I understood you correctly. Are you referring to synthetic rubber gloves
or there are things on the horizon that we should be made aware of?
DR.
BOREL: Absolutely.
DR.
GASPARI: Can you expand on that a
little bit?
DR.
BOREL: Believe me. I am not an expert on this but I know what I
read. In Science News since, I think,
1992, 1993, there has been a group out of USDA that has been looking to find
other sources of natural rubber. One of
the ones that seems the most promising is Guayule. I know that their crops are planted. They are out in Arizona.
They are just about up to production speed.
So
you are going to have other natural rubber products on the horizon and they are
making gloves and they are doing medical devices. They are taking the lessons learned from the Hevea natural rubber
latex situation. They are not going to
be using any powder, from what I understand, and they are going to do their
utmost to limit the level of total protein so that we don't have the same
sensitization issues. But it is called
Guayule.
DR.
DWYER: Thank you.
Any
other questions? One more. Dr. Hamilton?
DR.
HAMILTON: We know of three states that
have basically banned latex gloves for food handling. Can you speak to the issue of latex gloves used in grocery stores
that actually come in contact with food but that we haven't really considered
in any of our discussions?
DR.
BOREL: They are always considered, but
I have to tell you that, once grocery chains have an understanding, are given
the NIOSH report and understand, they are concerned about their consumers but
they are more concerned about their workers, evidently. It is very easy to get a grocery chain to
switch. As long as the cost is the
same, they just don't care. But it is
another source of exposure for food handling.
DR.
DWYER: Anybody else? See, I told you if you just stood there,
they always ask questions.
DR.
BOREL: I'm sorry. I forgot I was the first one. Thank you very much.
DR.
DWYER: Thank you very much. We are grateful you came on such a rainy,
miserable day.
Our next speaker is Dr. Charles Reed who is Professor Emeritus of Medicine at Mayo Clinic. Mr. Sholz, he lives far north